Building Drupal, Building Community: Avi Schwab Talks

Avi Schwab stumbled into Drupal out of frustration with outdated web tools. What started with grumbling over FTP in 2008 turned into a deep, ongoing commitment to open source, community-driven technology, and the people who keep it all running. Sixteen years later, Avi has become one of the most recognizable voices in the Drupal ecosystem, known not just for his technical skill but for his focus on collaboration, sustainability, and showing up for others.

Avi is a Community Organizer, Drupal Architect, Technical Product Consultant at ImageX, and founding co-organizer of MidCamp. In this conversation with Alka Elizabeth, sub-editor at The DropTimes, he talks candidly about what keeps him invested in Drupal after all these years. He reflects on his journey from updating university websites to leading massive multisite platforms, shaping the Open Y distribution for YMCAs, and building community through events that are as welcoming as they are impactful.

From the value of local events to the risks of bloated SaaS setups, this interview dives into the challenges and motivations that drive Avi’s work. Whether you are deep in the Drupal community or just curious about how open source leadership works in practice, Avi offers thoughtful, honest insight into both the technical and human sides of the story.

TDT [1]: You've been part of the Drupal community since 2008. How would you describe the beginning?

Avi Schwab: The very short version is “I got grumpy with FTP”. 😀

I was working in IT at the University of Chicago, and my role slowly grew from fixing computers to updating websites. My degree was in Computer Science, but I had taken one elective, “Web Design” course, and done a little programming on the side. I even had a Movable Type blog for a little while (and TIL MT is surprisingly still alive)!

Once folks heard I “knew how to make websites,” I started getting work from all over our department asking to update various department and office websites. Wrangling raw HTML and server-side includes in Dreamweaver got quickly overwhelming, so I went searching for a better solution. Drupal landed square in my lap.

TDT [2]: Looking back, what do you think has changed most in Drupal, in the people, or in your relationship with both?

Avi Schwab: I never knew Drupal as a “hobby project”—from day 1, it was always a work tool for me. I did go to a few conferences early on and met some of the community. Folks were always welcoming and helpful, but I think my biggest change was when I went from a “community taker” to a “community maker”. I started on the organizing team of MidCamp when we started in 2014, and from then on, I was hooked on helping grow and support this community.

TDT [3]: You've built a reputation around Drupal as a SaaS platform. What are the biggest misconceptions people have about using Drupal in this way, and how do you address them?

Avi Schwab: That’s right. I’ve run two “massive multisite” platforms in my career, both close to 300 sites each. Drupal is technically a great fit for SAAS platforms—multisite is still an incredible innovation and a great tool. The downfall of every SAAS platform I’ve worked on has been governance, and that’s not an issue Drupal can solve.

TDT [4]: MidCamp has been your community hub for over a decade. What keeps you coming back to organize, and what do you think makes a Drupal event truly successful?

Avi Schwab: The people. The people. The people. (There were only two questions there, but I think it’s worth repeating a third time.)

We have a great team at MidCamp, and I think we’ve done a great job of cycling folks through leadership roles while still maintaining consistency in our team. I think there is huge value in providing people with a place that is local and accessible to learn about Drupal. Many of our main sessions are repeated year after year (you can check the archives on Drupal.tv), but that’s also part of the value - we have quality sessions from experienced presenters, AND experimental sessions, AND new presenters. 

That diversity in content and people, along with providing an opportunity to come together as humans and solve problems, is what makes MidCamp (and frankly, all Drupal events) successful.

TDT [5]: What is Open Y, and what has been your role in shaping or supporting it over the years?

Avi Schwab: Open Y is a Drupal distribution, built for Ys, by Ys, to build a digital experience for their members. I started working on Open Y in my job at YMCA of the USA and continued with it at ImageX. In both roles, I’ve served as a technical advisor—listening to YMCA clients, listening to the core architecture team, listening to the development partners, and connecting the dots. I’ve also worked to keep the team connected to Drupal-land, encouraging open contributions and ensuring our internal work is published externally to continue the “Open”-ness of Open Y.

TDT [6]: How do you handle the pressure to make Open Y flexible enough for every YMCA without turning it into a bloated, one-size-fits-none mess?

Avi Schwab: That’s… a hard question. The most important part of Open Y, I think, is that its development has always been driven by its client organizations. Open Y was founded as a collaboration between the YMCA of the North and other Ys to build value together, understanding that collective growth strengthens all of their organizations and cost sharing is essential for their work.

We’ve worked hard over the years to build Open Y in pieces with specific constituencies in mind. A single-branch YMCA has very different needs from a major metro Y. The core team who brought me in—Craig and Nathan at YNorth, and Mark and Scott at YUSA—made sure that my focus at the beginning was not just getting a technical understanding of the platform, but getting an organizational perspective too. 

TDT [7]: Do you see Open Y evolving into a true platform-as-a-service, and how do you get independent YMCAs to buy into that vision?

Avi Schwab: Maybe? I think it’s up to the YMCAs themselves to determine what’s right for them. As a developer at an agency, the best I can do is show them what paths are available. I do think there is still a huge amount of value that can be built on the platform, but that will require a reconvening of YMCA associations—not from the top down, but from the middle out—to determine their destiny. 

As I said earlier, SAAS/PAAS solutions live and die not by their code, but by their governance. Drupal hosting is hard, and locking clients with disparate needs into a system that can’t adapt benefits nobody. I think there are some innovative solutions in the hosting space and some great opportunities to share resources, without the lock-in/lock-down that needs to come with a SAAS/PAAS.

TDT [8]: You’ve contributed to documentation, support, code, and events. What type of contribution do you think is most undervalued in the Drupal ecosystem?

Avi Schwab: The “non-code contribution” conversation has been going on for a long time, and there is great value in so many places there, but that is an ocean of a space. For me, two things have stood out as challenges in my time doing contributions:

1. Testing. Automated tests are hard and unfulfilling. Very few clients want to pay for them. Even fewer developers understand how to write them, or what, even, to test. Manual tests are time-consuming and still need to be well-defined. I think we could improve here by teaching how to test and what to test, and by encouraging non-technical users to help write better testing steps for issues.
2. Project Management. So many of our issue queues are gigantic messes of tasks dating back decades. Drupal could use some folks who are able to review long lists of tasks, understand broad needs, and help guide maintainers in what they see as the needs of the project. The “glue” work of reviewing issues, summarizing them, adding attribution, and closing them when they’re complete is another whole job in itself.

TDT [9]: How do you mentor or guide new contributors, especially those who may not see themselves as “technical” but want to participate in Drupal?

Avi Schwab: I usually just lead with “I got involved with the community by planning parties”.😀 There is so much work to be done in the issue queues and the community that is not code. Literally anyone with a desire to help can join in. The issue queues are full of novice issues. Design, UX, and Accessibility are all ever-present concerns. And events are an even easier way to pitch in—they need everything from developers to just people to say hi at a registration desk. There’s truly something for everyone; you just have to show up and ask!

TDT [10]: You’ve been supported by employers who value open source. What advice would you give to developers trying to advocate for that kind of support in less open-minded environments?

Avi Schwab: The sustainability of open source has been a conversation for its entire existence. It is a genuinely hard problem. If you’re already doing Drupal, your business is obviously aware of the concept, but they may not be aware of how to support it constructively.

At some agencies and offices, I’ve taken a direct approach—“Drupal’s health is directly tied to our business success” —which often is enough incentive to get leadership to support contribution efforts. 

This, however, is a challenge when margins are tight. Spending four hours on a Core bug or an hour at an initiative meeting has very little short-term relation to the hours spent on it. In these cases, I’ve had to take a more indirect approach - “Drupal’s health is directly tied to my career success”. In these cases, I do my best to arrange my compensation and my work so that I’m able to support contributions outside of work hours. 

TDT [11]: You attended DrupalCon Atlanta. What stood out to you, and is there a topic you'd want to explore more deeply now that the event is over?

Avi Schwab: Atlanta was a very mixed bag for me.

Drupal CMS and AI were everywhere, and I do believe there is good innovation coming from both of those projects. Drupal CMS has a huge potential, if we continue to work hard to understand who our audience is. I think the innovation supporting the project has the potential to trickle down to existing projects and support an order of magnitude more users than Drupal CMS itself. AI’s benefits are obvious, but we need to work harder to balance its true costs as well (both to people and to the environment).

It was clear that a global pandemic, ongoing international conflicts, and unrest closer to home have deeply shaken folks. Business is hard, layoffs are ongoing, and people are stretched thin. Without a strong and clear path to sustainability—for businesses, for individuals, and for the world—I think we have a number of hard years to come.

The community—the people of Drupal—have always been my passion, and I’m coming out of DrupalCon Atlanta working harder to understand now we can keep that going despite huge barriers in our way.

TDT [12]: What part of your personal life—baking, biking, parenting has unexpectedly shaped how you approach leadership or problem-solving in Drupal?

Avi Schwab: (This is such a good question!) I think all of these things share a common challenge for me. 

I have a great time biking when I get out the door. My bread comes out lovely when I get the starter going the night before. Parenting … well… parenting is an eternal joy and an eternal struggle, but it works best when I show up to the day rested and present.

As I mentioned above when talking about contribution, the first part of solving any problem is just showing up. I think when working on issues, or solving problems, or helping people, the most important thing we can do is be open to the conversation. There is a lot that comes after that, but if we don’t start there, nothing else can happen.

TDT [13]: Sixteen years in, what keeps you motivated to stay involved in this community? And what’s next for you—technically, professionally, or personally?

Avi Schwab: 😮‍💨 Drupal still has a bright future, and it’s built a fantastic community of like-minded folks. I’ve had the great privilege of being able to connect my work in Drupal with education, non-profits, and community-minded work. That’s a big help in keeping me going, even when things are hard.

Professionally, ImageX’s work for our YMCA clients is never-ending, and I’m excited to continue supporting that work for the foreseeable future. I’m speaking at Drupal Camp Asheville later this summer about Open Y, and I’m excited for that. It will be my first time in Asheville and at that camp.

In my Drupal community roles, I worked hard to pass MidCamp and the Event Organizer Working Group off to new and talented people so I could focus on MOSA, the non-profit behind a dozen camps and initiatives. I’m hoping that work can make community events easier for us all, and continue to support bringing people together.

At home, my family has some exciting trips planned this summer, and I’m looking forward to some quiet time too, touching grass and swimming in Lake Michigan during the short summer that Chicago provides.